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Re: [Bacula-devel] Source Forge problems

Kern Sibbald wrote:
> I really appreciate the offer of help, because I badly need it.  Here is where 
> I am on this project ...
> I am having second thoughts about using Launchpad for several reasons (but no 
> second thoughts about trying Bazaar and finding some way to use email with 
> our bugs database -- or a new database).
> My current concerns about Launchpad are the following:
> 1. They have not at all been responsive (after their initial very rapid 
> response) -- they have not responded to a request for help importing, and 
> they are unsuccessful in importing the Bacula SVN (see Bacula at Launchpad 
> for details).

That's certainly not a good sign...

> 2. It appears that I loose virtually all control over the project in Launchpad 
> in the following respects:
>   - Anyone can import code into the Bacula area.  E.g. one (probably well 
> meaning user) has tried to import the whole Bacula SVN into the Bacula area 
> under the name "trunc" while I have already asked to import it as as "trunk".  
> That is going to create enormous confusion and possibly frustration if 
> someone chooses the wrong trunk.  In addition, I have *no* way of contacting 
> this user as his email address is private.  
>   - I am ready to allow anyone to make all kinds of branches of Bacula, but 
> the above situation is not very conducive to running a professional project 
> (naming problems, anyone can do almost anything, and I cannot even discuss it 
> with them).

Um... wow.  And here I thought that the "distributed" part of "distributed
version control" meant that contributors could easily create their own repo
and modify it to their hearts content, without requiring write access to the
officially published one.

Making it easy to create new branches in the main repository is obviously a
good thing, but no access controls at all seems like it's going just a bit too
far to me.

> 3. I asked them to import our bugs database, but no feedback.
> So, I am now importing the Bacula SVN here at my site into Bazaar (will 
> complete in a few hours) -- here is probably not appropriate for rehosting  
> the SVN/Bazaar repository because I only have about 500KB/sec upload speed, 
> but it is good for testing so I can make some decision.  I am working on 
> having a hosting arrangement in the next month or so where I can install a 
> machine that will have at least 1Gb ethernet access and that goes into Fiber 
> the problem is that kind of thing is pretty expensive ...

If needed, I can see if I can provision a decently specced out server (or at
least a VM) that I can host at work.

If I'm reading the docs right, it looks like the biggest difficulty would be
how to manager user accounts, since Bazaar depends exclusively on sftp to push

> If anyone has any ideas either how to make Mantis accept email input or knows 
> about another simple bugs database that does, I am open there.  I do like 
> Mantis a lot for the following reasons:
> 1. It seems *much* simpler than things like bugzilla, which is good for users
> 2. It has given us no problems at all.
> What I don't like about it:
> 1. It doesn't distinguish between need user Feedback and the bug fixers are 
> working on the problem.  It simply reports "Feedback".  Other bug systems 
> have something like "Feedback" and "InProgress" -- it might be possible to 
> customize this.
> 2. It has no email interface (or at least we are not using it if it exists).  
> This means that it is hard to make simple one or two line responses -- I must 
> always log in through the web interface to do anything.

All I could find on this is a somewhat stale page on the mantis wiki:


> 3. I don't know anyway that we can hook Mantis to Bazaar, which supports 
> interfacing with bugs databases.

It looks like having Bazaar point to Mantis should be fairly straightforward:


I have no idea about referencing Bazaar objects from within Mantis.

> I haven't had the time to look at what Launchpad is using as a bugs database.
> Another thing I like about Launchpad is the Answers stuff.  It is basically a 
> nice email list with a Web browser built in so that you can use either email 
> or a browser.  This would *really* help new users who are looking for what 
> has been previously discussed because in general web browser interfaces 
> permit better searching.

If I'm understanding what you're looking for, it sounds like we could get at
least some of that functionality via a good FAQ management tool.

> Another possibility is possibly hosting the Launchpad code ourselves, but that 
> seems like *way* too much work at this time ...
> Things that would help me for Bazaar are:
> 1. Recommendation on Bazaar "Team collaboration" style:
>   - Centralized development
>   - Decentralized with shared mainline
>   - Decentralized with human gatekeeper
>   - Decentralized with automatic gatekeeper
> ...
> I suspect that Decentralized with automatic gatekeeper (and commit restricted 
> to specific developers) would work pretty well.
> Then there is a question of how to setup a secure server (FastCGI, mod_python, 
> smart_server, ...)
> It is going to take some time to digest all this ...


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WPI Senior Network Engineer   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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